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- Thursday, March 28, 2024

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 Backboned and Brokenhearted
It’s been posted in the last week or so that major trail work is being done on Will Roger’s Backbone trail. Previous posts said the work was from the bridge up to the oak tree. Well, they did not stop there, the entire trail is being redone, and it’s very depressing.

It has been many, many years since I was involved in trail maintenance, working with the NFS and BLM. Back then, the philosophy behind the work was a “first do no harm” approach. The main reason to perform work on a section of trail was to fix and/or prevent serious erosion. From my observations of the work on Backbone, this does not appear to be the case here. The entire trail has been disturbed. Sections which were solid rock, thus not an erosion problem, have been broken up and pulverized. Rock bedding has been removed and vegetation uprooted to widen the trail. Endo inducing dirt ditches and mounds have been added in an attempt to channel rainwater off the trail, but these will most certainly widen into large gaps when the rain comes and erodes them more (if they are not quickly filled with all of the loose dirt which now covers the trail This once pristine singletrack is now wide enough to drive a jeep on, and as technical as a fire road. Every hiker I spoke with seemed as disgusted with the work as I was. One said to me, “Sh!t, is this what my $5 is being used for?” (it took me a second to remember that if you drive to W.R. you have to pay to park)

So, can anyone with more recent trail work experience than I shed some light on this? Is there a new approach to trail maintenance that I am unaware off. A logical reason?

Section above the last "jungle" section (above oak tree)...

Pieces of formerly solid rock which made up the trail on "Chicken Ridge" (below the oak tree)...

Rockslide area. Rocks have been removed.

Last outside turn before J-Drop. Side of hill has been undercut, how long before it collapses?

Side of hill has been scraped off to widen trail just above the bridge. Maybe now the "Bikers Dismount" signs will come down, right?

Right above the bridge. What was mostly solid rock is now deep, loose, powdery dirt.
Posted by Black Bart a 31 year old Die-hard Enthusiast riding a Sugar+ and a Schwinn Cruiser Seven from Santa Monica on 05/17/04


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  •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
    I don't want to hear another complaint--ever--about damages allegedly inflicted by mountain bikes....


    THIS SUCKS.


    Posted by Old Heckler on 05/17/04


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  •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
    If the pictures don't show up, you can see them here.
    Posted by Black Bart a 31 year old Die-hard Enthusiast riding a Sugar+ and a Schwinn Cruiser Seven from Santa Monica on 05/17/04

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  •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted

    That is truly painful to look at.

    Although, I was wondering when they'd put a freeway through from the end of Reseda to the coast. No need to wonder anymore.


    Posted by ZG a 34 year old Cross-Country Rider riding a XRCFEX from Studio City on 05/17/04


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  •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
    Will Rogers is all about the horses idn't it?

    That's going to make for a high speed run now. The first pack of gnar bikes through there is really going to leave some ... 'marks' unless they are careful.
    Posted by Sprocket on 05/17/04


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  •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
    That is a damn stinkin' shame!!!

    But I give it 2 years before it's back to normal.
    Posted by Tom Kenney a Cross-Country Rider on 05/17/04


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    •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
      My concern is that with the amount of rock that has been removed, the erosion to come will be much worse than before. It just didn't look like a sustainable trail.
      Posted by Black Bart a 31 year old Die-hard Enthusiast riding a Sugar+ and a Schwinn Cruiser Seven from Santa Monica on 05/17/04

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    •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
      depending on the rain, I'd guess more like one season...I don't like trail destruction any more than any other mtn biker (and if they ever did this to Tunnel or Cold Springs I'd be physically ill) - but the good news is how far back the brush has been cut, especially the infamous poison oak tunnel - the loose gravel and dirt they filled things in with will wash away with rain, it will rut with people skidding, and in a year or so the trail will be challenging again - and I don't think they will do this again for many years...

      I don't love what they did, but if this is what they have to do to keep single-track open to bikes in the Santa Monicas, I can live with a year of easy trail

      also, I never really rode Will Rogers for the "gnar" - I go a little further afield for that...field trips to various locals outside the 310 have always been in order for challenging trails...
      Posted by Macrider a 37 year old Die-hard Enthusiast riding a Turner RFX, XCE & Trek Bruiser 2 from LA on 05/17/04


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      •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
        agreed.

        it sux for now, big time.
        it's one of the best local climbs.
        but after a season or two (hopefully with a good el nino as well),
        the topography and nature of this area will form a challenging trail
        once again.

        i'll have to start climbing Cookies.
        ;-)
        Posted by Dmoney a Racer riding a Cannondales from Los angeles on 05/17/04


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        •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
          "i'll have to start climbing Cookies"

          let us know how that works out for ya! (and please "step aside and let the man go through" when I'm totally DH'ing down that trail!)
          Posted by Macrider a 37 year old Die-hard Enthusiast riding a Turner RFX, XCE & Trek Bruiser 2 from LA on 05/17/04


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  •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
    While I am usually a huge opponent to machine assisted trail work, this trail needed work that could ONLY be performed by a sweco. The backbone was literally disappearing on us, and the parallel ruts, hidden ruts, and blind turns made it ripe for rider injury and/or hiker-biker conflict.

    The work that has been done is a fairly consistent 6 feet wide, with waterbars(which will make for great jumps)about every 200 yards. The dirt is soft and loose right now, but will pack down nicely with some rain. Granted the trail is slow and sloppy right now, but let's see how it rides in 6 months. IMO, it will ride better than ever.

    I would much rather see this trail remain open to bikes and in great shape via machined work every 5 years, than see it closed....or disappeared.
    Posted by Dusty Bottoms from Dogtown on 05/17/04


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    •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
      Totally agree.
      Posted by CrzyRidr3 a 32 year old riding a SantaBansheeCruzScreamBlurr on 05/17/04

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    •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted

      Alright! I was saying to myself that the path of destruction looked like a Sweco 480 had been through there ...we're trying to get one in San Diego right now. Validation appreciated.

      Better to maintain than to close, for sure. We just did major -hand- work on a trail in San Diego this last weekend and it's certainly hard to look at when it's first done. Thing is, the best season for this is December/January, when we can count on some rain to tamp the disturbed soils. San Diego usually gets a June rainstorm...will LA?

      Posted by EBasil riding a Manitou HT from San Diego on 05/17/04


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  •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
    People, not to be the voice of dissent, but the sky is not falling. I rode Backbone with XC Bottoms Friday, and have the following to say:

    1. The trail *needed* work. Lots of work. It was worn out, overgrown, and consequently, blindly-rutted and dangerous. The PO jungle section above the oak is now the legal 48" wide, and all PO is easily avoidable.

    2. You can't complain about the sanitizing of the trail, and then turn around and deride the 'endo-inducing dirt ditches' as being too technical. These water runoff channels function well and prevent excessive rutting, and if you give this place one good rain and lots of traffic, you will be able to boost off every one of these! You will be giggling like a little girl come summer on this trail.

    3. This trail is going to be bad ass in the very near future. Give it a chance to absorb the work. There is little to gain from criticising what has already been done- trail maintainance of high-traffic trails will *not* stop in the future. This is a fact of life. Try to apppreciate the changing nature of the SMM and its trails, and the different challenges that come with these changes.

    I happen to love the new backbone.

    BTB
    Posted by El Santo riding a Bullit on 05/17/04


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    •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
      You missed some killer "other" backbone action yesterday Dr Santo....

      Stone brews at the top at sunset after....life is pretty darn ok sometimes...
      Posted by Macrider a 37 year old Die-hard Enthusiast riding a Turner RFX, XCE & Trek Bruiser 2 from LA on 05/17/04


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    •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
      I agree the trail needed work. I am questioning why the problem areas were not targeted instead of the entire trail. Most of the trail did not need this level of work, IMHO. I asked if anyone with recent trail work experience could explain the need for and philosophy behind work which includes removal of rooted plants and solid rock. The PO can and has in the past been trimmed back without disturbing the trail bed.

      As far as the "endo-inducing dirt ditches" being too technical. I did not say they were too technical. My concern is for the novice rider who may now fly down the trail and hit one of these things. If newbies start getting hurt up there, it is not going to help our cause. The trail before, I believe, kept most riders speed in check. Now that it is flat and wide, I fear many riders will bomb down it MUCH faster than before. Not good for biker/hiker/horse rider relations.
      Posted by Black Bart a 31 year old Die-hard Enthusiast riding a Sugar+ and a Schwinn Cruiser Seven from Santa Monica on 05/17/04


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      •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
        I'm with you on this one Bart. The same was done to Backbone Solstice Cyn a few years back. Everyone jumped on my case for belly-aching about it. They assured me "it'll take one season and be the same as before or better than ever."

        WRONG. The trenches they made to divert water were much too deep creating a potential endo hazard to riders. And no, they did not make for good jumping. Unless you like to preload and speed-jump. They are still there.

        The incredible rocky sections of the trail are still covered with a blanket of hard pack dirt. Most of the rocks were removed. How do we regain those?

        The wider trail only encourages the novices to ride even faster. I've encountered out-of-control helmet-less newbies careening around corners because the natural impediments no longer exist.

        I understand the need for maintenance. I just don't agree with the level of sanitization that goes on.

        I'm not into seeing how fast I can charge down Backbone. I was into picking my lines and challenging myself with the natural obstacles.


        Posted by Upchuck on 05/18/04


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        •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted

          Good point on the effect wider trails have. The same goes for the "good sight lines" that the Rangers staffs are often encouraged to develop: they allow riders to uncork and go faster with confidence--perhaps right where that speed can cause conflicts. Add wide and clear together and it's always faster. This can be hard to explain to other user groups that "enjoy" getting hysterical about speeding Konas that tear by "at 50 miles an hour", as they typically say.

          Sometimes, that "sanitizing" is unavoidable in the process of regrading or brush-clearing a trail in a manner that's supposed to last for years without another major visit, though. IF the volunteers or workers don't want to be back the next year, they have to get aggressive.

          We're playing with a different interpretation of "trail width" in San Diego: one that considers the "corridor" seperately from the "tread". In this frame of official thought, a 12" wide singletrack trail might actually be in a 4' trail corridor... so it's totally acceptable to install rolling dips, nicks and CHICANES within a 4' trail maintenance project, so that the trail appears and is used as an undulating 24" band, or whatnot. If the Rangers dealing with the Backbone trails are focused on accomodating two horses wide, then such measures might not be workable, but we've got multiuse trails in San Diego that look a whole lot like singletrack after they harden in --even though they've been "sanitized" to death for drainage purposes.

          Hey, if I can't speed-jump it, I have to get off and walk...
          Posted by EBasil riding a Manitou HT from San Diego on 05/18/04


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          •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
            I see your point, EB. I guess I should learn to accept the < tongue-in-cheek>recent retro-technological advances and understand that the powers-that-be are enabling the geriatric hardtail hangers-on to enjoy the last vestiges of a bygone era< /tongue-in-cheek>.

            I also concur (that's a legal term, right?) that the Kona conundrum is a real threat to the health of ascending endurance types and needs to be addressed by < sarcasm>downgrading all possible natural trail features that would otherwise interest said riders traveling at an alleged 50 mph< /sarcasm>.

            That being said, whether I am afoot or astride a two-wheeled, human-powered form of recreation, I feel much more in tune with the surrounding flora and fauna when I am on a 4 foot wide trail than a 6-8 foot wide byway that runs through the forest like a scar on Mother Earth.

            I understand that because of the infrequent visits to a given region aggressive trail maintenance is a necessary evil. However, utilizing a mini-bulldozer when brush clearing and water-bar installation would suffice is ludicrous, reckless and contradicts the very tenets that the so-called “wilderness conservationist” organizations espouse.

            In fact, I heartily enjoyed the last time we shared a set of loppers and camp saw. The hard work was good for the environment as well as the soul. E-me next time you get out this way and we’ll hit Backbone off of Kanan Dume. I know you’ll enjoy it because there are plenty of places you can open that hardtail up to about 10 mph…

            ;)


            Posted by Upchuck on 05/18/04


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            •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted

              Jeez, I don't want to ride there, it's a barren wasteland.

              If you had only cancelled your family trip to the races at Kern, you would have seen my new 5x5.
              Posted by EBasil riding a Manitou HT and a bike from Wiscahnson from San Diego on 05/18/04


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              •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
                WTF?! You didn't ditch the Manitou, did you? That was a classic, even with the dinged chainstay.

                What'd you get? SinglePivot or Horst Link?


                Posted by Upchuck on 05/18/04


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                •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
                  Ditch it? HELL no...it's still active. It got a new fork the week after Pedalpalooza and has been a singlespeed since November. I rode it Saturday evening after our trail work: it's a singletrack machine, even with a chopper fork on it.

                  My new rig is a Fisher Cake frameset and some of the OEM parts, plus my version of a custom build out. SPV both ends, rides pretty quick, loooong top tube just like the Manitou. Only five rides, about 85 miles, on it so far and it's taking some adjustment.
                  Posted by EBasil riding a Manitou HT and a boinger from San Diego on 05/18/04


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                  •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
                    Very nice. Congrat's. Looking forward to hooking up for a ride again.


                    Posted by Upchuck on 05/18/04


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    •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
      I for one don't understand the engineering behind why a trail need work or why it doesn't and I won't pretend to. So if it "needs" work for some type of erosion prevention or whatever then fine.

      However, if I wanted to go for a road ride I would ride on the road. Will Rogers was a great trail and not a single stretch of it was too rutted or too rocky or too narrow that it couldn't be ridden by anyone with any skill. And if your skills weren't up to it then walk for the 10' and get back on.

      Of course the trail will be back in a few years, but until then I'll leave WR to the schwinn beach cruisers and I'll ride elsewhere.
      Posted by Modernismo a 38 year old Racer riding a Specialized from Los angeles on 05/18/04


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      •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
        LOL! that's it! I didn't have the skilz! I was always walking WR!

        seriously, occasional trail work is going to happen on any trail used as much as WR - it'll be back in shape in no-time

        like I said, you want gnar, you had to look elsewhere anyway..
        Posted by Macrider a 37 year old Die-hard Enthusiast riding a Turner RFX, XCE & Trek Bruiser 2 from LA on 05/18/04


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  •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted

    I just read and was reminded that Backbone is heavily ridden with horses, but that still doesn't fully resolve my third-party suggestion for what those trail workers DIDN'T do: go back and camoflage the regraded trail with leaves, debris, brush trimmings, etc... that don't impede drainage but suggest a more narrow trail to the eye.

    It looks so much less devastated, right off the bat.


    Posted by EBasil riding a Manitou HT from San Diego on 05/17/04


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  •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
    Y'know, this is an easy fix - attach a roller and water buffalo to that same Sweco, wet the trails down, and roll them to compact them.

    Anything else I can fix for you today?

    Posted by DeRanger on 05/18/04


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    •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
      I have an easier fix, don't use a SWECO.

      Anything else I can fix for you today?
      Posted by GC on 05/18/04


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      •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
        Somewhere in this town is Boy Scout troop in need of a service project. I guess Josepho is just too far away.

        DeRanger, back to my question... Is erosion control not the top priority? How is breaking up and removing solid rock and uprooting vegetation beneficial? Is it just about having a trail where horses can walk side by side? I thought you would have some insight into this. My experience with maintenance is in AZ, different approach maybe?
        Posted by Black Bart on 05/18/04


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        •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
          The letter of the law in a state park is 4' wide and easy enough for all trail users.

          It seems like that particular ranger enjoys the SWECO so much that he wants to make sure the trails are to code at any cost.

          FWIW, I don't ride there but have watched people complain about his management practices for years. After all of that I took the IMBA trail boss class which he co-leads and willingly professes his theory of multi use trail management.
          Posted by GC on 05/18/04


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          •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted

            Yeah, it looks like the operator went very aggresively against rocks in the trails, where that may not be necessary to achieve an overall outsloping grade.


            Posted by EBasil riding a Manitou HT from San Diego on 05/18/04


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            •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
              His outspoken theory is that nothing larger than a tennis ball should be left in the trail tread. I don't at all agree with those practices and his work seems to be over agressive, as you so elequently stated.
              Posted by GC on 05/18/04

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              •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted

                Well, reward his efforts with a liberal sprinkling of Black Mustard seed and a thank you note signed by "DeRanger". Interagency feuds can be so entertaining.

                Posted by EBasil riding a 5x5 boinger from San Diego on 05/18/04

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          •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
            Ah, I see. State mandated ADA compliant trails.
            Posted by Black Bart a 31 year old Die-hard Enthusiast riding a Sugar+ and a Schwinn Cruiser Seven from Santa Monica on 05/18/04

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        •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
          BB, sorry to take so long to get to this. Yes, erosion is a big concern, but it's not the only concern.

          Would I have done it this way? It's not how I usually approach trail maintenance, but I don't know their budget, agency guidelines, political pressures, &c. to offer a meaningful critique.

          Posted by DeRanger on 05/20/04


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          •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
            Thanks, D
            Posted by Black Bart a 31 year old Die-hard Enthusiast riding a Sugar+ and a Schwinn Cruiser Seven from Santa Monica on 05/20/04

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    •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted

      When they're doing work like this do they consider the season and time of year? It seems to myself and others that
      trail users would have been best served with this work being done during the fall or winter months, when rains would have compacted the soil.

      Or is it simply when they could get to it? For now at least, the trail is most likely just as dangerous... if not more so than it was prior to having been "Octoed." Deep silt does not a safe trail make.

      ;)


      Posted by ZG a 34 year old Cross-Country Rider riding a XRCFEX from Studio City on 05/18/04


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  •  Re: Backboned and Brokenhearted
    I must agree with the rest that this work was needed. The trail was disappearing, especially the veggie tunnel.
    I also concur with EL Santo that after a couple of good rains this trail will be a lot of technical fun again.
    I remember when I moved here in 97 that the trail was very smooth and fast. It wasn't even near as technical as it became.
    It won't be as fun to climb for a long while.
    Peace outside
    Posted by Derek Fisher riding a bike from the land of enchantment on 05/18/04

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